Ramadan, Tariq
▶ Watch on YouTubeCoverage note: full (about twenty-three minutes; YouTube auto-generated captions without punctuation)
Core ideas
A real revolution, a false dilemma. Ramadan says that after Tunisia what is happening in Egypt is a genuine, unpredictable revolution by people asking for freedom, democracy and dignity; the frame "dictatorship or radical Islamists" is ideological and has long served to justify Western support for dictators. Žižek agrees: Tony Blair's talk of "managing the transition" amounts to "the more it changes, the more it stays the same". He adds that fighting a tyrant is a living proof that freedom is universal, against both cynical views that Muslim crowds prefer fundamentalist dictatorship and the "stupid multicultural respect" that treats democracy as merely Western.
Hypocrisy and the Muslim Brotherhood. Ramadan points to the double standard: Saudi Arabia, with women denied rights and a 60-billion-dollar arms deal, is not at the centre of the "fear of radical Islam", and the West supports democratic principles only when convenient, including in the name of Israel's security. He says the demonstrations are not led by the Muslim Brotherhood, which is diverse (some close to the Saudis, others to Turkey's AKP), has changed over decades (including on democracy and women's involvement), and should be challenged, not feared; his grandfather Hassan al-Banna founded it as an anti-colonial, grassroots movement before repression. He rejects comparison with Iran in 1979.
Left, secularity, chaos. Žižek notes the staged Baghdad statue scene as a contrast with Tahrir Square, mocks Western claims about religious naïveté (many Americans believe in devils and ghosts), and says the choice should not be Islamic fundamentalism or Western liberal democracy; the tragedy of the Arab world is the disappearance of a secular, non-fundamentalist left, which fundamentalism filled in. Asked about Mao's "great chaos under heaven", he says he does not praise chaos but that those in power must be like Tom and Jerry's cat over the precipice; he suggests Iran's 1979 revolution also had genuine democratic potential. Both condemn Western leaders' support for Mubarak, and Žižek denounces the continued construction of settlements in Palestinian land.
Excerpts
“« it's the struggle for freedom here we have a direct proof a that freedom is universal »”
“« if the true choice is between muslim fundamentalist theocracy or western liberalism we are lost »”
“« we can't in the name of security support a dictator »”