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Podcasts/Lex Fridman Podcast/Smith-Levin, Aaron

Smith-Levin, Aaron

former Scientologist, raised in the Church from age four, a Sea Org member from age 12 to 26; vice president of the Aftermath Foundation; host of the YouTube channel "Growing Up in Scientology"

Aaron Smith-Levin: Scientology

Lex Fridman Podcast · Feb 25, 2023

▶ Watch on YouTube

Core ideas

Smith-Levin lays out Scientology's core doctrine as he understands it from decades inside the organization: the belief that people are immortal spiritual beings called "thetans" with native god-like potential who have fallen into a degraded, trapped state, and that Scientology's techniques (principally "auditing") exist to restore that native power. He traces this back to L. Ron Hubbard's 1950 book Dianetics, which he describes as originally a purely secular "science of mental health" theory — a "reactive mind" storing unconscious recordings of pain called "engrams," treatable by recalling them until they lose their charge — before Hubbard introduced reincarnation and spiritual cosmology a few years later to found Scientology proper. He walks through the "auditing" process in detail, including the E-meter (a device measuring electrical resistance that practitioners believe registers a person's engrams), and describes an unfalsifiable structure he says he witnessed personally: any auditing that doesn't produce the promised results is explained away as having been "applied incorrectly" rather than as evidence the underlying theory is wrong.

He is careful throughout to distinguish Scientology's stated beliefs and internal logic from moral judgment about individual believers, arguing that treating the ideas seriously (rather than mocking them outright) is necessary to understand how a system attracts intelligent, sincere people — comparing the pull of totalizing ideologies broadly to how communism's stated ideals of equality can, in his account, become inseparable from severe abuses committed in their name once "the ends justify the means" logic sets in. He describes the Sea Org — Scientology's most committed inner tier, whose members sign symbolic "billion-year" contracts, live communally, are paid a nominal wage (he says roughly $50/week), and are subject to strict controls on marriage, childbearing (he states pregnant Sea Org members are expected to have an abortion or leave), and information access — as the group bearing the brunt of what he describes as the organization's most severe practices, including a policy of "disconnection," in which members are directed to cut off contact with family members who criticize the Church or leave it. He recounts his own family's experience with this policy as the aspect of his story he considers by far the most painful: his mother was pressured over disconnection, his own marriage was reportedly threatened, and ultimately his wife's extended family was told they would face expulsion unless they cut contact with her — a process he describes as having irreparably damaged relationships and, in his account, as a contributing context to his twin brother's death in a car accident, which he attributes to the toll of the family's Scientology experience even though the crash itself was not caused by Scientology directly.

On leadership, he describes his understanding of how David Miscavige rose to head the Church of Scientology after Hubbard's death, framing it — based substantially on accounts from his colleague Mike Rinder, a former senior Scientology executive and co-host with Smith-Levin — as a consolidation of power during Hubbard's years in seclusion, in which Miscavige controlled the flow of information reaching Hubbard and used that position to sideline the two people (Pat and Annie Broeker) reportedly intended to succeed him. Smith-Levin states his own view that Miscavige is a sincere believer in Scientology's core framework but is aware, in ways rank-and-file members are not, that promised advanced spiritual levels beyond what Hubbard completed do not exist in written form — while stressing this is his interpretation, not a claim he can prove, and that a case can be made either way about how much Miscavige privately believes. He relays secondhand and Rinder-sourced accounts of alleged physical assault by Miscavige against staff, alleged financial and information control tactics (including reports of Scientology staff editing Wikipedia from traceable IP addresses until being blocked, and alleged use of private investigators to surveil former members), and describes what he calls "soft corruption" — Scientology cultivating community and law-enforcement relationships in Clearwater, Florida through off-duty pay and philanthropic ties rather than through anything he characterizes as illegal — while explicitly noting he has no evidence of blackmail being used to retain members, including addressing rumors about Tom Cruise directly and stating he knows of no one who stays out of fear of blackmail.

He offers his own estimate of current active Scientology membership — he states no more than roughly 35,000 worldwide, based on his own accounting of organizational staffing levels, against what he says is the Church's public claim of millions — and describes what he calls a deliberate strategy behind his own YouTube channel: presenting an accurate, non-exaggerated, non-hostile account of Scientology life specifically so that current members encountering his content would find it credible rather than dismiss it as obviously hostile propaganda, a strategy he contrasts with his own experience encountering harshly worded anti-Scientology material online as a young Scientologist and dismissing it as clearly false. Throughout, he states repeatedly that he does not personally hate Scientology, Miscavige, or his own upbringing in it, describing an unusual emotional detachment he attributes partly to having had to make hard, high-stakes decisions under pressure for years, and frames his ongoing advocacy — including his role with the Aftermath Foundation, which helps people leave the organization — as motivated by a wish to prevent the specific harm he considers indefensible regardless of Scientology's other claimed benefits: the deliberate severing of family relationships.

Excerpts

On why the good and the harmful aspects of Scientology are hard to separate, in his account:

“If Scientology was just getting auditing when you wanted, about the subjects you wanted, and you could take it or leave it, that would be fine. It's the fact that it's part and parcel to this entire organization and this entire experience that has, as a part of that experience, taking everything from you, demanding everything from you, controlling who you can speak with, controlling who you can have relationships with, who you have to erase from your life. This is where — and it's hard to place one pinpoint on this — is where Scientology goes wrong.”

On the auditing process and its self-sealing logic, as he describes having experienced and later administered it:

“Standard Tech works 100% of the time when applied 100% correctly... anytime it doesn't work, it wasn't applied correctly. That's a nice little escape hatch... I would probably argue that auditors are not in a position of having many crises of faith, because they're usually seeing people, for the most part, improve in some ways through the process.”

On the family disconnection he says his own family faced, and why he considers it the central harm:

“There were hours that I spent talking to them, going, you know, guys, there's another way — it doesn't have to go this way, there's another way that ends well for all of us — and that wasn't even considered... As long as they destroy families like that, they're a cult. I don't even have to get into the academic discussions of what's a religion and what's a cult.”