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Podcasts/Lex Fridman Podcast/Scott, Kevin

Scott, Kevin

CTO of Microsoft; former SVP of engineering and operations at LinkedIn; former head of mobile ads engineering at Google

Kevin Scott: Microsoft CTO

Lex Fridman Podcast · Aug 1, 2019

▶ Watch on YouTube

Core ideas

Scott opens by describing Microsoft's sheer breadth — cloud infrastructure, productivity software, operating systems, hardware, a broad research division spanning economics to HCI to AI, GitHub, LinkedIn, search/advertising, and gaming — framing this as a genuine ongoing source of personal delight (recounting a "fanboy" moment meeting the co-creator of the game Day of the Tentacle) even as running the company day-to-day is serious work. He uses Microsoft Research's collaboration with economist Glen Weyl on "radical markets" as an entry point into a broader argument about AI's societal stakes: Weyl's provocative proposal (that assets like real estate could be continuously bid-priced, forcing owners to either match a higher bid or cede the asset, closer indexing price to value and undercutting speculative rent-seeking) is offered as an example of market-design thinking relevant to questions like Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax, and connects to the "data as labor" / "data dignity" work Scott's team pursued with Weyl and VR pioneer Jaron Lanier — an attempt to build mechanisms letting people capture explicit economic value from the data they generate (contrasted with today's largely non-transparent value flows, and existing partial examples like data-labeling firms such as Scale AI).

Responding to Andrew Yang-style concerns about AI-driven job loss, Scott argues Microsoft's central obligation is to build AI as a platform rather than a proprietary tool, citing Bill Gates's principle that a successful platform generates more economic value for those building on top of it than for the platform owner itself; he wants AI's benefits distributed to millions of builders rather than concentrated among a handful of companies in a handful of cities, drawing an analogy to the steam engine and the electric motor, whose value was initially captured mainly by capital owners but eventually diffused into ubiquitous, undifferentiated infrastructure components (the "MEMS gyroscope" is invisible but everywhere). He traces this platform identity through Microsoft's history — from Bill Gates's original "a PC on every desk and in every home" mission (framed as democratizing access to a genuinely new technology) to Satya Nadella's current mission of empowering "every individual and every organization... to be more successful" — arguing that a platform's success paradoxically makes it invisible, since ubiquitous technology stops being something people actively anticipate or celebrate the way they once celebrated Windows 95 launches.

On concrete AI deployment inside Microsoft's products, Scott insists AI should never be the first-order selling point of a feature (comparing it to an engineering tool like a hash table — useful but not something users should get excited about in isolation) but should quietly improve underlying experiences: dozens of ML-powered Office features, search infrastructure that depends entirely on machine learning, and gaming-specific content moderation on Xbox aimed narrowly at anti-bullying rather than general recommendation. He describes upcoming assistive features — smarter auto-response and meeting scheduling, a unified "Microsoft Search" and "Microsoft Graph" surfacing information across previously siloed products, and a real-time collaborative "fluid framework" letting live document fragments (e.g., a spreadsheet chart) be embedded and co-edited directly inside a Teams conversation — while explicitly rejecting a "Big Bang" return of a single unified assistant persona (joking about Clippy) in favor of incremental capability growth.

Asked about content moderation and the boundary between playful banter and bullying, Scott argues "vertical" (purpose-specific) social networks like LinkedIn (built narrowly around professional opportunity) or Xbox's gaming community have an inherent advantage over general-purpose platforms, since a narrower stated purpose gives moderation systems clearer boundaries to reason within. He argues platforms are currently making unilateral moderation decisions faster than democratic policymaking can keep up, and states his preference that this catch-up happen through actual democratic processes rather than platforms alone setting global norms — framing the internet's speed of change (roughly half a century from no ubiquitous digital technology to a majority of the global population being online) against the roughly three millennia societies took to build norms like journalism, editorial integrity, and peer review around the written word.

On face recognition specifically, Scott cites Microsoft president Brad Smith's public position favoring targeted regulation and states his own preference for erring toward caution (allowing that a blanket ban, such as San Francisco's, may prove overly broad, while endorsing restraint pending clearer democratically-set rules) especially for law enforcement use, alongside ongoing internal research into demographic bias in these models (citing real examples of skewed associations, like models learning "doctors are men"). He extends this into a broader discussion of deepfakes and synthetic media: acknowledging GAN-based synthetic data is already being used constructively to de-bias face-recognition training sets, while warning that photorealistic fake video is about to become dramatically cheaper to produce, fundamentally challenging assumptions about what can be trusted as real. His proposed technical mitigation is cryptographically verified content provenance — a "chain of custody" letting viewers trace a piece of media back to a trusted, verified identity (a government office, a named CEO) rather than relying on visual plausibility alone — while agreeing with Lex Fridman's observation (drawing on his own experience of pervasive state media distrust in the Soviet Union) that widespread technologically-induced skepticism can be a socially healthy outcome, analogous to how the scientific method's demand for reproducibility, rather than blind trust, has proven robust.

On engineering leadership at scale (tens of thousands of engineers), Scott identifies two consistently important disciplines: proactively investing early in shared infrastructure, tooling, and process before a team scales past the point where ad hoc coordination works, since deferred decisions compound into "technical debt and culture debt" that becomes excruciating to unwind; and maintaining a clear, genuinely motivating shared mission once a team exceeds roughly Dunbar's number (150 people), beyond which informal trust-based coordination breaks down — invoking Yuval Noah Harari's Sapiens thesis that shared stories (currencies, constitutions, laws, corporate missions) are the essential technology binding large human groups toward common action. Closing on a 20-30 year horizon, Scott expresses broad technological optimism, drawing an explicit parallel between AI's potential and the 20th century's Green Revolution (which resolved earlier population-growth panics through biology and agricultural technology): he expects AI to help address climate-strained food security in rapidly growing regions like Africa and the challenges of aging populations and shrinking workforces across the developed world (US, Europe, China, Japan, Korea), while stressing that maintaining collective optimism itself matters, since pessimistic narratives about technology's future can become self-fulfilling by discouraging the very investment needed to realize a better outcome.

Excerpts

On why AI should be built as a platform rather than owned as a proprietary tool:

“It can't be a thing where there are a handful of companies sitting in a very small handful of cities geographically who are making all the decisions about what goes into the AI... I have infinite amounts of faith in human beings that if you give folks powerful tools they will go do interesting things, and it's more than just a few tens of thousands of people with the interesting tools — it should be millions of people with the tools.”

On why platform moderation is currently outrunning democratic policymaking:

“We're in a state right now for some of these platforms where you actually do have to make unilateral decisions where the policy-making isn't gonna happen fast enough in order to prevent very bad things from happening, but... we need the policy-making side of that to catch up as quickly as possible, because you want that whole process to be a democratic thing, not some sort of weird thing where you've got a non-representative group of people making decisions that have national and global impact.”

On why deepfakes require a technological rather than purely social solution:

“You could use crypto in the networks to have content signed, where you could have a full chain of custody that accompanied every piece of content... the underlying tech that is used to create this isn't going to do anything but get better over time, and the genie is sort of out of the bottle — there's no stuffing it back in.”