Jones, Craig & Rod, Nicky & Ryan, Nicky

Jones, Craig: B-Team Jiu Jitsu, Austin, Texas — the group that split from John Danaher's "Danaher Death Squad"

Rod, Nicky: B-Team Jiu Jitsu, Austin, Texas — the group that split from John Danaher's "Danaher Death Squad"

Ryan, Nicky: B-Team Jiu Jitsu, Austin, Texas — the group that split from John Danaher's "Danaher Death Squad"

B-Team Jiu Jitsu: Craig Jones, Nicky Rod, and Nicky Ryan

Lex Fridman Podcast · Mar 6, 2023

• Craig Jones
• Nicky Rod
• Nicky Ryan
• B-Team Jiu Jitsu
• Danaher Death Squad split
• Gordon Ryan rivalry
• steroids in grappling
• EBI overtime rules
• Alexander Volkanovski training camp
• constraint-based learning in jiu-jitsu

Core ideas

The conversation opens with playful introductions (all three are self-deprecating about their ADCC silver medals — "the number one loser") before tracing how B-Team formed: Craig Jones describes moving from Australia to train with DDS in New York because Australia's talent pool was too shallow and geographically isolated for elite competition, initially "ripping off" Eddie Cummings' leg-lock style before eventually training directly against the source; Nicky Rod describes discovering jiu-jitsu as a bouncer and fitness model, rapidly excelling due to wrestling-adjacent instincts, and joining DDS in 2018; Nicky Ryan describes starting at age 13 under his brother Gordon Ryan's influence, dropping out of high school at 15 to train full-time under John Danaher, whom he describes as a father figure. All three describe John Danaher as a brilliant, charismatic coach whose private demeanor (jokes, banter, an "Australian/Kiwi"-adjacent humor) differs sharply from his public image, and they decline to detail the specific personal conflicts that caused the team's split, treating it as a topic deliberately shrouded in humor ("things happen in the jungle that will never be spoken of") while affirming the decision to leave was justified given how uncomfortable the situation had become for training.

Much of the conversation is structured as good-natured trash talk directed at Gordon Ryan (Nicky Ryan's brother and former teammate), whom Craig Jones and Nicky Rod have been publicly feuding with, including mutual accusations of "greasing" (applying a slippery substance during a match) and steroid use following a closely contested EBI-rules match between Craig Jones and Gordon Ryan (which Craig won by escaping in the overtime "everyone-starts-in-the-worst-position" format, having earlier broken Gordon's fibula with a heel hook and inflicted toe damage via a toe hold). Nicky Ryan describes the split from his brother as initially bitter (roughly two years without speaking) but recently thawing, with Gordon reaching out privately; he affirms real family loyalty remains despite the ongoing public animosity, and notes their father raised them to view family loyalty as paramount. Craig Jones is candid that he considers the online rivalry mostly a form of Australian-style "gentle provocation" humor rather than genuine hostility, contrasting it with how seriously some other cultures and athletes (he cites Dagestani wrestlers and Sambo practitioners, referencing backlash after joking about Islam Makhachev) take similar jabs; he explicitly frames his approach as escalating provocation just up to — but not over — a line, and argues that liking someone changes how their jokes land.

On steroid use in grappling, all three acknowledge it as an open, mostly unspoken practice in a sport that (unlike many Olympic disciplines) has minimal drug testing; Craig Jones states he personally believes using steroids is "cheating" regardless of whether it's tested for, while acknowledging it's difficult to know who is and isn't using, and that muscle mass provides genuine competitive advantage at the highest levels (faster recovery enabling more training volume, not just raw strength) even though technique matters more. Nicky Rod discusses a severe ACL tear sustained a week before his most recent ADCC — sustained in a wrestling accident during preparation — which he chose not to get imaged (deliberately avoiding an MRI) or treat before competing, understanding only after the event that it was a full tear rather than a meniscus injury; he ultimately competed anyway using upper-body wrestling to compensate for compromised guard-pulling ability, and has since opted for rehab-only management rather than surgery, reporting the leg now feels more stable than his other (meniscus-injured) knee.

The three discuss training philosophy at length: Nicky Rod is highly ritualistic in competition preparation (structured visualization routines stepping through imagined arena noise and crowd exposure weeks in advance, deliberately limiting sensory input on competition day to preserve decision-making capacity), while Craig Jones deliberately avoids all visualization and ritual, treating every training session — including ones before major tournaments — identically and with minimal warm-up, on the philosophy that "there's no warm-ups on the street." They discuss the psychological toll of losing versus winning (Nicky Rod says he hates losing more than he enjoys winning, which he considers a liability that sometimes makes him overly risk-averse about competing) and describe "positional training" — deliberately starting rounds from bad positions like mount or turtle against training partners — as both uniquely frustrating and essential for competition-readiness, since avoiding it (as Craig Jones did earlier in his career) leaves fighters unprepared for adverse positions under real pressure. Craig Jones articulates a broader pedagogical philosophy of constraint-based learning: presenting beginners with a structural problem (e.g., a wrestling game where one partner must keep upright posture) before teaching the technical solution, so students discover the underlying principle (why a lower stance matters) through problem-solving rather than rote demonstration — a method he's building into a forthcoming fundamentals course for B-Team's new white-belt program.

Craig Jones recounts coaching UFC featherweight champion Alexander Volkanovski's training camp for his fight against Islam Makhachev, describing weeks of wrestling-focused preparation (working the cage as an "equalizer" against Makhachev's superior freestyle wrestling background, drilling get-ups from turtle rather than traditional Gracie technical stand-ups, and defending Makhachev's characteristic kimura and armbar attacks) and crediting Volkanovski's exceptional gas tank and unshakeable self-belief — rather than any single technique — as his defining edge in a fight Jones considers Volkanovski to have won in spirit even if the judges' decision (which Jones felt could have gone either way) favored Makhachev. They discuss the outsized wrestling dominance of Dagestani fighters (Khabib Nurmagomedov, Makhachev) without offering a confident explanation for its cultural or training origins, and Nicky Ryan names Khabib as his pick for greatest MMA fighter of all time given his undefeated record and high finishing rate, while Craig Jones picks Volkanovski for his technical breadth across striking, wrestling, and submission defense.

The conversation closes with reflections on running a gym as a business — all three note that financial and status tensions (disputes over role, credit, and perceived entitlement among coaches) can strain even close, years-long relationships, referencing a recent, amicably-declined-to-detail falling out with a former team member (Isaac) as an example of how difficult it is to manage hierarchy, money, and ego simultaneously in a small grappling-based business — and light-hearted closing riffs on hypothetical animal fights (lion vs. bear, kangaroo combat), the most effective takedowns and submissions in modern no-gi competition (foot sweeps, arm drags, rear-naked chokes, and the "Yoko Sankaku" side triangle), and a shared expectation that Craig Jones and Gordon Ryan will face off again within roughly six months.

Excerpts